Talk:Taxation Plank 2013

Change of Plank Title from Taxation to Taxation & Spending

I would like to change ""Taxation"" to ""Taxation & Spending"" - they are linked, every libertarian knows that, anyone we hope to attract wants to hear that.--Allen Small 18:29, 22 November 2012 (EST)

• I strongly, strongly, want to encourage sticking to ONE WORD for titles. Couple reasons.
  • It doesn't matter if the written content deviates away from the title's definition. If you get into fiscal policy, or importing/exports, or monetary policy - fine...but just leave it as taxation. By the time somebody makes the connection that the written word is poorly titled, it won't matter.
  • It will make it much more difficult to make professional looking graphic layouts if we need to fit the extra word.
  • I'd be quicker to compromise with changing the title to "Spending" rather than "Taxation & Spending".
  • Either that, or can we use a simpler, all-encompassing word? "Money"? "Budget"? "Deficit"? (out of these three, I think I prefer "Budget" the best...

--Jeffrey McLarty 18:40, 22 November 2012 (EST)

• Yah, I think I like, "Budget" better.--Jeffrey McLarty 18:43, 22 November 2012 (EST)

Taxation is the title and I personally have a very negative emotion with being robbed of my private property. I dislike "taxes" very much. I will accept Taxation as a plank title but to have a Libertarian Party claim that "Taxes are necessary" is to ask me to endorse robbery and I will never ever accept robbery as a valid means of merit. If our party publicly claims that "Taxes are necessary"; this simple statement is a "deal breaker" for me. I suggest that the executive seek another term such as funding or budget or contributions or go ahead and endorse robbery as you desire for yourselves. --Neal 08:30, 27 December 2012 (EST) How about BUDGET, Neal?--Allen Small 22:42, 27 December 2012 (EST)

I appreciate your comment Allen. No, I don't think we should name a plank position "Budget" unless we are actually proposing a "budget" plan for our Ontario government. I have no problem keeping "Taxation" as our plank title. We are specifically referring to our governments revenue stream not its total financial plan. I have a problem with our party endorsing "Taxation" as a valid revenue stream. People understand the word Taxation.

The statement "Taxes are necessary part of maintaining a functioning legal structure." endorses taxes as a valid means for our government to finance itself. Why do we endorse "extortion" as a valid revenue stream? Would it be acceptable for our Libertarian Party to "tax" members and non-members of our communities. No, we charge a membership (user) fee and accept consented contributions. We want our government to finance its operation the same way our party and other community organizations do; By the consent and willingness of the individuals not by robin hood taxes.

If the opening statement was "Funds are necessary part of maintaining a functioning legal structure.", such a statement doesn't endorses "Taxes" even though some might think it implied. This "Funds are necessary..." is true but now the question is: Where do funds come from?

We libertarians wish to influence our governments financial operations. Yes a "Budget" needs to be estimated and established but that topic is beyond our marketing planks. What is the purpose of each of the five marketing planks? To present a simple persuasive message. Should our Taxation plank present that taxes is a good thing or a negative thing for individuals and businesses.

Individuals and businesses must earn their revenues by merit by appealing to the consent of the free market. Community associations, political parties and some Non-Government Organizations must also appeal to the consent of the free market. We want our government to appeal to the consent of our free citizens within our communities. We all must operate within our revenue means and hopefully achieve a margin or savings to build up our capital (pension) reserves.

We desire that our political party operate by the consent of us members and that we maintains a positive budget balance. We shall expect the same from our government. --Neal 11:30, 31 December 2012 (EST)

The Taxation Plank has been renamed the Budget. This plank concept is not a Budget! A Budget is a projected financial plan with estimated revenues less estimated expenses leaving an estimated surplus or shortfall. The "Budget" term is simply inappropriate and not acceptable since this plank is addressing taxation, it should identified as Taxes.

The short term objective is to maintain the government's authority to rob (tax) us individuals and our enterprises of some of our resources according to the government's own self determined criteria. A Libertarian government will lower it robbery rates for everybody and close tax loophole to increase it tax revenues on everybody.

The long term goal is to maintain government's authority to rob only a flat even rate percentage of our individual and enterprise's income and promises to end all other extortion programs.

As a Libertarian Party member, I am ashamed of our executive members for endorsing robbery as a valid means of financing oneself, or one's enterprise and especially of one's government. The executive is stating and breaking its own principle. The core function of government is to defend our life, liberty and property by taking some of our property by force as a protection fee against competitive racketeers.

I do not endorse this falsely titled plank "Budget" nor its legal "plunder" operations. --Neal 15:44, 17 January 2013 (EST)

Neal, thanks for all your insight. Even prior to your comment, Allen and I toyed with many of the comments your proposing. We added more points surrounding spending, and reducing said spending, to more appropriately keep the title Budget. We understand that we aren't proposing A BUDGET. As an unelected party, we CAN'T impact the real budget.

And, PLEASE, PLEASE, I beg you, to find it in you to read between the lines of what we have done with the final release of this document. The document, is an experiment. Think about it, as a document, which aims to play the same games all the other politicians play. Heads - it works, we get support for libertarian concepts. Tails - it fails, just like the other stuff we publish, and we stay the exact same size - SMALL. If the document fails to get attention, and get people on board, we'll either improve it next year, or throw it away.--Jeffrey McLarty 18:34, 17 January 2013 (EST)

--Jeffrey McLarty 18:34, 17 January 2013 (EST)

BTW - I'm LOCKING this page, as it's now an archive. A bunch of work, and discussion, happened off-line.

Future relevant discussion is going to happen on the main 2013-2014 platform page's discussion.

--Jeffrey McLarty 18:35, 17 January 2013 (EST)